Weak Natural Harmonics On Certain Frets? Options

[guitaro]

So I was trying to play Blurry by Puddle of Mudd and noticed alot of the natural harmonics happen near the 4th and 5ths frets. The 5th fret harmonics ring without a problem but the 4th fret natural harmonics are barely audible. I am playing on an electric guitar(ESP Horizon NT-II) through an ENGL Special Edition E 670 EL34 head if that makes any difference. Using a completely clean tone. What gives? Is it my settings(more gain on the clean channel didn't seem to help much)? I know the 4th fret won't be as strong as the 5th/7th/12th and 24th but it still should be noticeable right?

Also I have noticed that further down the neck, the natural harmonic is stronger at the 16th fret compared to the 17th. Is this normal? I think the 2nd half of the fretboard is essentially a mirror of the 1st half(5th fret harmonic is the same as 24th, 7th is the same as 19th) but I'm confused when it comes to how the 16th and 17ths frets work with natural harmonics. Would the 17th fret harmonic be the same at a 9th fret harmonic?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

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[klasaine]

4th, 9th, and 16th frets generate the same harmonics - 'true' major 3rds of the principal.
And they are absolutely weaker than say the 5th, 7th, 12th, 19th and 24th which are perfect octaves and 5ths of the principal.
Octaves and 5ths pop out much easier than any other partial (note/harmonic).

The 17th fret is very difficult to sound but it is 3 octaves above whatever string your plucking. You can also sort of get it in the middle of the 3rd fret. *Slightly more towards the nut.

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[jstcrsn]

So I was trying to play Blurry by Puddle of Mudd and noticed alot of the natural harmonics happen near the 4th and 5ths frets. The 5th fret harmonics ring without a problem but the 4th fret natural harmonics are barely audible. I am playing on an electric guitar(ESP Horizon NT-II) through an ENGL Special Edition E 670 EL34 head if that makes any difference. Using a completely clean tone. What gives? Is it my settings(more gain on the clean channel didn't seem to help much)? I know the 4th fret won't be as strong as the 5th/7th/12th and 24th but it still should be noticeable right?

Also I have noticed that further down the neck, the natural harmonic is stronger at the 16th fret compared to the 17th. Is this normal? I think the 2nd half of the fretboard is essentially a mirror of the 1st half(5th fret harmonic is the same as 24th, 7th is the same as 19th) but I'm confused when it comes to how the 16th and 17ths frets work with natural harmonics. Would the 17th fret harmonic be the same at a 9th fret harmonic?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

aftermarket pickups can help as some are EQed to get certain registers better, I would think that guitar should have good pups, I would experiment moving away from the fret slightly to find a sweet spot

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This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Mar 10 2021, 07:39 PM

[Mertay]

I quickly tried it unplugged and got a result similar to the video, try it ampless to see if it has anything to do with the room or amp/cab.

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[guitaro]

4th, 9th, and 16th frets generate the same harmonics - 'true' major 3rds of the principal.
And they are absolutely weaker than say the 5th, 7th, 12th, 19th and 24th which are perfect octaves and 5ths of the principal.
Octaves and 5ths pop out much easier than any other partial (note/harmonic).

The 17th fret is very difficult to sound but it is 3 octaves above whatever string your plucking. You can also sort of get it in the middle of the 3rd fret. *Slightly more towards the nut.

Ahhh thanks, that explains alot. I originally thought the 17th would mimic the 5th and the 19th would mimic the 7th but then I actually tried them and they sounded completely different.

I quickly tried it unplugged and got a result similar to the video, try it ampless to see if it has anything to do with the room or amp/cab.

Thank you, I will give it a shot. Either that or I am fretting the just behind or in front of the proper spot to sound the 4th fret harmonic.

aftermarket pickups can help as some are EQed to get certain registers better, I would think that guitar should have good pups, I would experiment moving away from the fret slightly to find a sweet spot

Definitely will try. Any amp settings that could help in this regard? Thanks again.

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[klasaine]

Any amp settings that could help in this regard? Thanks again.

Amp settings don't matter as much as which pickup you use.
The bridge pickup will always yield a stronger harmonic.

In general, brighter is better for harmonics.
Overdrive and distortion will also bring out more harmonics in general. *Distortion is actually the addition of harmonics to the fundamental tone which "distorts" the wave form.

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[guitaro]

Amp settings don't matter as much as which pickup you use.
The bridge pickup will always yield a stronger harmonic.

In general, brighter is better for harmonics.
Overdrive and distortion will also bring out more harmonics in general. *Distortion is actually the addition of harmonics to the fundamental tone which "distorts" the wave form.

Ohhh I have been using the neck pickup only as it sounds too twangy with just the bridge pickup on a clean tone. It still should ring noticeably with the neck pick up though?

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[klasaine]

Ohhh I have been using the neck pickup only as it sounds too twangy with just the bridge pickup on a clean tone. It still should ring noticeably with the neck pick up though?

Not as much. If the pole pieces of the neck pkup aren't directly under the 24th fret, they don't "hear" the harmonics as well. Especially any of the harms that aren't a root or a 5th.
There is also a certain amount of technique involved in pulling harmonics out.

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This post has been edited by klasaine: Mar 11 2021, 07:55 AM

[guitaro]

Not as much. If the pole pieces of the neck pkup aren't directly under the 24th fret, they don't "hear" the harmonics as well. Especially any of the harms that aren't a root or a 5th.
There is also a certain amount of technique involved in pulling harmonics out.

Thanks, I will give it a go this weekend.

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[guitaro]

Amp settings don't matter as much as which pickup you use.
The bridge pickup will always yield a stronger harmonic.

In general, brighter is better for harmonics.
Overdrive and distortion will also bring out more harmonics in general. *Distortion is actually the addition of harmonics to the fundamental tone which "distorts" the wave form.

I tried it today, you were right. On the bridge pickup, it sounded very clearly(almost as much as the 5th fret). When I switched back to the neck pick up, it was almost inaudible. Would raising/lowering the neck pick up help here?

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This post has been edited by guitaro: Mar 13 2021, 11:55 AM

[klasaine]

I tried it today, you were right. On the bridge pickup, it sounded very clearly(almost as much as the 5th fret). When I switched back to the neck pick up, it was almost inaudible. Would raising/lowering the neck pick up help here?

Nope, it has nothing to do with the height. It's the placement of the pickup in relation to the length of the string. It's normal for the neck pickup. You could try the middle position. It may help to bring out more of the harmonics while retaining some of the neck pkup tone. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.

*If you need neck pickup tone for your harmonics, get a standard Strat or a Tele.

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This post has been edited by klasaine: Mar 13 2021, 03:54 PM

[jstcrsn]

I tried it today, you were right. On the bridge pickup, it sounded very clearly(almost as much as the 5th fret). When I switched back to the neck pick up, it was almost inaudible. Would raising/lowering the neck pick up help here?

Mastering switching pick ups mid song is an extremely useful tool you will use all the time as well so I would learn this skill if you have not. That way if you need a short section with harmonics, switch to the bridge and then softer tones for chords switch back also you get use to listening for opportunities with in songs to switch

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[guitaro]

Mastering switching pick ups mid song is an extremely useful tool you will use all the time as well so I would learn this skill if you have not. That way if you need a short section with harmonics, switch to the bridge and then softer tones for chords switch back also you get use to listening for opportunities with in songs to switch

I see, thanks for the reply

Nope, it has nothing to do with the height. It's the placement of the pickup in relation to the length of the string. It's normal for the neck pickup. You could try the middle position. It may help to bring out more of the harmonics while retaining some of the neck pkup tone. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.

*If you need neck pickup tone for your harmonics, get a standard Strat or a Tele.

Urgh I totally forgot about using the middle position, will try tomorrow. Hopefully it is the best of both worlds

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[guitaro]

Nope, it has nothing to do with the height. It's the placement of the pickup in relation to the length of the string. It's normal for the neck pickup. You could try the middle position. It may help to bring out more of the harmonics while retaining some of the neck pkup tone. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.

*If you need neck pickup tone for your harmonics, get a standard Strat or a Tele.

I'm assuming a Tele/Strat would be better for neck pickup harmonics because they are 21 fret guitars and essentially have the neck pickup placed where the hypothetical 24th fret would be?

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[klasaine]

I'm assuming a Tele/Strat would be better for neck pickup harmonics because they are 21 fret guitars and essentially have the neck pickup placed where the hypothetical 24th fret would be?

Generally, yes.
Also, single coil pkups in general can "hear" and reproduce a fuller spectrum of notes.

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